Value vs Non-Value | Lean Principles | Ryan Tierney
Welcome to Lean Made Simple, a podcast about transforming your business — and life — one step at a time.
In this episode, Ryan Tierney from Seating Matters discusses the powerful lean principle: "Value vs Non-Value!"
Along the way, he and Producer Matt talk about:
What a Japanese barber taught him about value
Fine-tuning our “waste goggles”
Why value is only being added when the product is changing
Bob the lean painter
Internal vs external customers
How 90% of everything businesses do is waste
And how to start cutting non-value from our lives
Check it out!
Links:
Video of Donna cutting fabric in Seating Matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWMJ0OPA0G8
Send a voice message/question into the show: https://www.speakpipe.com/LeanMadeSimple
Book a Lean Made Simple Tour: https://www.leanmadesimple.com/book-a-tour
Welcome to Lean Made Simple: a podcast for people who want to change their business and their lives one step at a time. I’m Ryan Tierney from Seating Matters, a manufacturing company from Limavady, Northern Ireland that employs 60+ people. Almost ten years ago, I came across this thing called “lean” and it transformed my life… now I want to share this message with as many people as possible.
This podcast unpacks our learnings, lessons and principles developed over the last decade in a fun, conversational way that will hopefully empower you on your own business journey — whether you’ve been doing lean for years or are just starting out!
Check it out on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts or any other podcast platform by searching “lean made simple.”
Thanks and all the best.
— Ryan Tierney
Magic Moment 1: The Most Valuable Painter In The World
Magic Moment 2: Value vs Non-Value in Parenting
Magic Moment 3: Most Companies Punish Their Customers
Full Transcription of Episode
Ryan Tierney (00:00):
Once you see and understand value and non-value, you just can't look at anything the same again. If I walk into a factory or a restaurant, all I see is the value and non-value. Welcome to Lean Made Simple, a podcast for people who want to transform their business and their lives one step at a time. My name is Ryan Tierney from a company called Seating Matters, in Limavady in Northern Ireland. I came across Lean eight and a half years ago, and I totally transformed my life and my whole way of thinking. And I'm really excited to share this message with as many people as possible.
Matt (00:32):
My name is Matthew. I'm a podcast producer from Belfast who is, after meeting Ryan, slowly implementing Lean into this very strange digital space that we find ourselves in and we're so excited to jump in. This is our first proper episode after the summit, Ryan. And the title is a big one. Ryan says it's quite controversial. So, I don't know what that means for the Lean world, but it's value versus non-value. So, just before we jump into our three levels, Ryan, do you want to maybe share your definition of value?
Ryan Tierney (01:01):
Yep. I think this is probably the first thing you need to understand if you're going to start Lean or transform your company with Lean thinking. And I missed this for the first three years. I was trying to do Lean and didn't really understand value and non-value. I've heard it, and I've read it in books and I've watched it in videos, but I never really internalized it. And really, value is anything the customer is willing to pay for. In a manufacturing setting, that is when the product is changing. What is your customer actually willing to pay for? And I had a penny dropping moment in Japan when this really clicked with me. And I just realized that the way I was doing Lean before was totally wrong. And once I found out about this concept of value versus non-value, everything changed.
Matt (01:56):
Oh, man, you're teasing us. What led to the penny drop moment? What's the story?
Ryan Tierney (02:00):
So, I was in Japan with Paul Akers, author of 2-Second Lean. We had just been to Lexus. We visited the Lexus plant that day, and my head was spinning. It was a really crazy experience. But that evening we were going for some dinner. And we were walking through a big large shopping mall in Nagoya in Japan, and there was a barber shop in the shopping mall. It was still open. And Paul Akers, we were walking together, and he stopped and he grabbed me and he says, "Ryan, look in that barbershop window and tell me when the value is being added." And I said, "Paul, not sure what you mean. I don't understand the question." It must be, is it from the minute you go in until you come out? And Paul was like, "Come on, let's go over close and look in the window."
(02:52):
And I still remember myself and Paul Akers, and the rest of the group were standing back, and we were looking in the window, of this barbershop window. And Paul said, "Value is only created when the product is changing." So, when the barber is actually cutting the customer's hair, its value. And everything else, whether we like it or not, is non-value added activity. So, paying for the haircut, non-value. Queuing up for the haircut, non-value. Deciding which haircut you want, non-value. When the barber has to clean up at the end, non-value. All these non-value added activities are surrounding us all the time. But the only point at which we're adding value is when the barber is actually physically changing the product. And as soon as I got that, I thought back to our company and I thought, this is crazy. We have so much non-value. We have enough potential to improve for the next 100 years.
Matt (03:49):
And in your barbershop example, the interesting thing is that if you were to write out all the processes involved, the actual cutting of the hair is like a fraction of the time.
Ryan Tierney (04:00):
Yeah, it is. And once you see and understand value and non-value, you just can't look at anything the same again. We always talk about having waste goggles on. If I walk to a factory or a restaurant or a shop, all I see is the value, non-value. It's just the way I think, and it's the way we think at our company. So, the key to Lean is very simple and it's just one Lean. All we want to do as a lean organization is reduce the non-value added activity as much as we can. It's not to increase the value, it's to reduce the non-value. Because of 95% of everything we do is non-value and only 5% is value, we can spend the rest of our life trying to make this 5%, four and a half, but we can make the 95, 85, and the win is massive if you do that.
Matt (04:49):
So, your biggest opportunity for improvement is actually to eliminate the non-value rather than trying to speed up the value?
Ryan Tierney (04:55):
Exactly.
Matt (04:56):
Really interesting. Can you share one more story before we get going, because this is something we talk about a lot internally as a team? I think it's Donna in Seating Matters, cutting stuff. Can you share that example, because that was really, really clear? And also, it's like the barber store. It's also cutting things, which is weird.
Ryan Tierney (05:13):
That's right. So, it's something we show on the tour, when we do a Lean Made sample tour at Seating Matters. The first place we go to is a cutting area, where we cut the fabric for our product. So, it's one of the best ways we have found to describe value and non-value. So, if we understand that value is only created when the product is changing, well, then it's only at that point where the knife is actually moving through the fabric is value. So, when we do a tour, we're all standing around the big cutting area. And I'm standing there saying non-value, non-value, value. So, I shout value whenever the blade touches the material. And it just sends a message to every single person on the tour that there is so much non-value in everything we do. So, when Donna goes to get the next role it's non-value. When she's lifting her templates, non-value. When she's wondering what chair to do next, non-value.
(06:08):
When she's looking for her tools, non-value. When she opens the drawer to get her tape measure, non-value, non-value, non-value, non-value. And then when she cuts, it's value. So, it's one of those points in the tear where everybody really internalizes and you see everybody's head nodding and they're like, ah, that's what you mean. When you see the knife moving through the fabric, it's value, everything else is waste.
Matt (06:33):
And I'll talk a little bit later in level two about how we've started to think about this with podcasts, because that Donna example has just changed so much about everything we do. So, there are three levels. First level is personal, second level is organizational, and the third level is when we get real lofty and talk about how this concept of value versus non-value could change the world. But if we start on the ground floor, the first level, how can we apply this to our personal lives?
Ryan Tierney (06:59):
Well, we're doing it all the time, every day. Every minute of the day we're either adding value or we're not. And sometimes it's a bit hard to hear that, but it's the truth and it's the way it is. A good example, a racing example. Last week we had a painter, his name's Bob. He listens to the podcast, so shout out to Bob. So, Bob came to Seating Matters to do a bit of painting for us. And we call Bob the Lean painter. Bob pulls up in his van, he's got a trolley with all his paint brushes, he's got his dust sheets, he's got his screwdriver for opening the lid. He's got all the stuff on a trolley. He wheels the trolley out of the back of his van. And within 10, 12 minutes, he's adding value.
(07:40):
So, if value is only when the product is changing, when the paint is being applied to the wall it's value. Looking for the paint, non-value. Deciding which paint brush to do, non-value. Putting out your dust sheets, non-value. Masking off the door so it doesn't get sparked, non-value. Value is only when the product is changing. So, when Bob is applying that paint on the wall, value. Everything else, whether we like it or not, is non-value and has the potential for loads of improvements.
Matt (08:07):
So funny, it took me about three months to paint our house whenever we bought it. And was most of the time was spent in the non-value stuff. Oh, spilled the paint and now I have to clean up the paint here and I have to chip away the stuff on the skirting boards. Really, really interesting. We're moving here anyway. Level two, organizational. How do you see this principle of value, non-value being played out in the business realm, in the organizational level?
Ryan Tierney (08:33):
Good question. I think the first thing is to define who the customer is. So, in Seating Matters, if we think about who the customer is, the customer may be the patient or is the patient who is sitting in the chair. So, they've placed an order for a chair, and what does the customer expect to get from this process? So, they want the chair that's welded, they want the chair that's good quality. They want the chair that's been sewn. They want the frame to be powder coated so it doesn't rust. They want the wheels to be screwed on tight. They want the immersion into the foam, so they want it to be soft. So, they're willing to pay for upholstery, they're willing to pay for it to be cut, to be welded, to be packaged. There's certain things that the customer is willing to pay for and there's certain things that they're not willing to pay for.
(09:22):
Is the customer willing to pay us to clean up the factory? No, they're not. They're absolutely not. They're paying for value, which is a product. So, we need to clean the factory as efficiently as we can. Is the customer willing for us to sit in a two or three hour meeting about accounts or about finances, about the direction of the business? Not really. They want the chair, they're willing to pay for the chair. So, how do we do all that other stuff as efficiently as possible? So, it's defining who the customer is, first of all. So, then somebody listening to this will say, oh, but I'm an accountant or I'm in marketing, does that mean that I'm non-value?
Matt (10:02):
My whole job is non-value?
Ryan Tierney (10:05):
But it's not, because define who the customer is. So, I always use Carrie on accounts. Carrie could be listening to this thinking, "But I don't weld, I don't cut, I don't upholster, so is my whole job non-value? Is the customer not willing to pay for what I do?" Technically, the customer isn't. But me and Jonathan and Martin, as the business owners, are prepared to pay Carrie to do the accounts. So, when we see Carrie on her computer on Sage, she's doing accounts, she's doing transactions on the bank. We're like, good value. This is value. We're willing to pay Carrie to do this. But when Carrie is searching through her files or she's not sure she's waiting on information, that's all non-value. So, it's defining who the customer is, and that is the key to this whole thing.
Matt (10:53):
That's actually a massive penny drop moment for me, just is realizing that the customer of those non-value tasks is actually Seating Matters as a business?
Ryan Tierney (11:06):
Yes.
Matt (11:07):
Wow. Very cool.
Ryan Tierney (11:11):
So, we always think of the customer as the end customer who is sitting in the chair, the person who is purchasing the product, and it is, but there's also internal customers, internal and external. So, is your internal customer willing to pay for what you're doing right now? And if not, that's the potential for improvement.
Matt (11:30):
Okay. The first thing I want to say is, I view Seating Matters as the most efficient place on the planet. And after you saying that, I'm now sitting here, I'm like, oh, Ryan's right, 90% of it is waste. Do you know what I mean?
Ryan Tierney (11:42):
Yep.
Matt (11:42):
Because the stuff that's not directly connected to the chair, that is a mind blown concept to begin with. So, there's almost three levels within the organizational level where it's like you have Donna at her station and there's lots of value, non-value there. And then there is the whole production system of the chairs. There's a lot of value, non-value there. And then the big umbrella, like you said, finance, cleaning, the organization as a whole, there's value, non-value there. Where does the product go after Donna's finished with it? This idea of internal, external customers, is Donna serving the next person in the production process, if that makes sense?
Ryan Tierney (12:27):
Exactly that. So, the next process after cutting is sewing. So, Donna's internal customer is the sewing department. And it's back to Toyota. We learned all this from Toyota. Toyota treat their internal customer as if they're a paying customer. So, you want to present this product to the next person in the best possible way, as if they're a paying customer. So, Beverly and the sewing department wants the cut parts to be presented in a certain way in the order that she needs them. She doesn't want to fumble through and look for all her stuff. She wants it presented by her internal supplier in the correct way.
Matt (13:06):
Oh, my goodness.
Ryan Tierney (13:07):
All we're doing is serving the customer, be it internal or external.
Matt (13:13):
Crazy.
Ryan Tierney (13:14):
On another level, this has just came to me. So, you've got Donna cutting, you've got Carrie in accounts adding value, but somebody asked us recently on a tour, "So, you, Ryan, and Martin and Jonathan as the owners of the company, technically your whole job is non-value then." Because I don't cut, I don't weld. Jonathan doesn't weld, Martin doesn't do accounts. We don't really do any day-to-day operations. So, is our entire job non-value? The answer is no, it's not. It's actually very valuable. So, who is our costumer-
Matt (13:49):
That's encouraging to know that you have value within your own organization. I'm sure you guys were relieved to hear that.
Ryan Tierney (13:57):
That's right. So, where is value for us? When me, Martin and Jonathan are sitting in a meeting planning the direction of the business, we're deciding on the vision, we're deciding we're going to go this direction, this is our next market, this is our next product. When we're in those planning meetings, that's value. That's 100% value. And something that I had, this is actually an improvement they had for about three months on the steering wheel of my vehicle, for about three months, I had a sticker saying, is what I'm doing right now adding value? Is what I'm doing right now adding value? So, when I was driving, I was like, am I adding value? Well, I'm driving to the shop to get something that there should have been a kanban card for, so this isn't value. That should have been systemized.
(14:41):
If my value is growing the business, being strategic about the next market, what's the next product? That's when I'm adding value. When we're in those meetings or deciding on them things, that's value, because our customers are the end customers, but also the people that work for us. Everybody in the company is our customer. We have to provide employment. We have to provide a workplace where they can thrive and grow. So, we have a duty to all those people to add value. So, that's when we're adding value.
Matt (15:12):
Really, really interesting. Guys, what about for podcasts? I will come to you in a second. Think about maybe some of the value, non-value stuff that you guys have implemented recently. Back to Donna's example, after seeing that at the very first Seating Matters tour, the first time we went up, I remember driving back in the car and just I felt like I'll never be able to see the world the same way ever again. So, when is our product changing? Our product is changing, is whenever we're recording this episode. So, as soon as the red light goes on, that's when value's being added. Everything up until that moment, setting up the room, making sure everything's right, changing all the camera angles, it's all non-value.
(15:53):
And then the next bit is after the episode's finished, the next time value is being added is whenever we are actively editing the episode. So, taking all the files off the hard drive, non-value. Loading it into the computer, non-value. Getting everything lined up and perfectly organized and labeled, and folders made, and file structures, it's all non-value. And then that's just totally blown our minds, because we're like, whoa, probably 80% of our production process is non-value.
Ryan Tierney (16:23):
That's right.
Matt (16:24):
It's scary. But also exciting, because we're like, wow, we can do a lot of ways to speed this up. Guys, value, non-value, go work, go personal. Go anywhere you want.
Mark (16:35):
Yeah. So, Ryan, what you were saying there about the internal customers, that's changed the way I'm thinking about what I'm doing and just there listening to you, because if I look at the clock, we've been here, what, an hour and a half, Oscar, something like that? What value have we actually provided? Have we changed the product? No, we haven't. What have I done this morning? Well, I've taped down the cables, got them out of the way. Myself and Oscar, before we recorded, we got the water sorted, we got the coffee sorted, we got the cameras set up, audio levels checked. And if I reframe that to we're providing value to the two of you who are the internal customers, to allow a lot less friction for you in providing value to the listener of the podcast. So, I suppose that shifted perspectives quite nice.
Matt (17:30):
I love that. Really cool. Daniel, do you want to just share really quick about what we were working on yesterday? Because another area where the product is changing is whenever we are actively uploading it. Well, I'm stuck on this bit. I don't know if the process of uploading it is adding value, but the point where the customer is watching it, so clicking on the Spotify, that's whenever value's being added. So, the whole scheduling process, how we upload episodes, how we connect it with YouTube, all this sort of stuff is non-value in a way. And so, we've been trying to speed that up. Do you want to share how we've been doing that?
Daniel (18:05):
Well, first of all, whenever we first got the process sorted out, once again it was taking about an hour or so, it was like we could just tell that there was something that we could definitely shorten here. And so, what we've done is that we've gone and created copy and paste buttons for each individual thing. For example, we have the title of the podcast, we have a copy button for that. And then a description, copy. Then the folders, copy and all, so on and so on forth. And then we have a known paste button, which once we go onto the form, we can just go paste, paste, paste, paste, paste, paste over and over again, without any other delays of having to go back and forth and back and forth. Just do it all at one go with that one piece flow, which is just, it's satisfying, really satisfying. But it's just saves so much more time.
Matt (18:52):
Awesome. Anything else before we move on to third level, Ryan?
Ryan Tierney (18:57):
Actually, an interesting story is, last week after the summit, so the summit was on Monday and Tuesday. On the Wednesday, Mr. Amasawa, former vice president of Lexus and Mr. Umemura, president of a tier one supplier to Toyota, came and visited us and they spent a full day in our factory, full day at Seating Matters. Eight o'clock in the morning to I think they didn't leave till six o'clock in the evening.
Matt (19:24):
Oh, proper full day.
Ryan Tierney (19:25):
Proper full day. And they went around our factory. And we'd been doing Lean for eight and a half years. They went around and absolutely changed my whole way of thinking on value and non-value, to the point that we're reorganizing the entire factory. The summit's only been two weeks away and we're changing everything. They identified... And I didn't see it. It's crazy how there's all these different levels and the more you get into it, the more you see it. But they were looking at the one particular product that we lift 11 times from we manufacture to it goes onto the chair. They suggested an improvement that takes that down to two. So, we have 130 of these products and we're lifting every one 11, roughly 10 or 11 times from we made it until it made its way onto the finished product. So, we're going to reduce the non-value massively. And this is after eight years of doing this every single day, there's absolutely massive ones out there still. It's just a never ending journey. It's so exciting.
Matt (20:24):
And this is why your job as a leader and as an owner is to serve your customers, so the end user of your product, but also your team. And you talked earlier about waste goggles. And one maybe way of putting it is your job as a leader is to increase the accuracy of your waste goggles as much as you possibly can. And that's just something that the pennies can't drop with me, even just saying that where that's why all of the Lean maniacs at the summit, that's why they were there. That's why they do factory tours, that's why they fly around the world. There'd be times where I'm like, why on earth is Brad Kearns flying over there? Why is Philippe going to help him with his glue? I don't understand. It's a lot of time to go and see these places, but it's because, yes, they want to help and also they're level upping their waste goggles so they can go back to their own organizations and see it in a totally different way, like those Japanese guys did.
Ryan Tierney (21:16):
Exactly.
Matt (21:17):
Mental.
Ryan Tierney (21:18):
I heard a really good line lately. It said most companies punish their customers for their inefficiencies. And you see it all the time. There's price increases. Every time you open the post, there's another price increase letter. What companies are doing are saying, we're so inefficient, our costs are going up so we're passing all that on to you. And really, what every company should try and challenge themselves to do is to look internally and identify that, hold on a minute, 95% of everything we do is waste. If we only reduce that by 20%, we wouldn't have to pass on them inefficiencies to your customer. They're actually punishing the customer.
Matt (21:57):
Crazy. So, moving into this third level then, how does value and non-value, how does it have the potential to impact wider society? And if you really want to go for it, how can this principle change the world?
Ryan Tierney (22:12):
First of all, it definitely can. And it's so simple. And that's what I love about Lean Made Simple. This one podcast has the potential to change somebody's business. It really has. I wish we had a platform like this when we were starting off on our Lean journey, somebody talking really simply and spelling these concepts out in such a simple way. So, if we talk about the cutting area, we get that when we're adding value at the cutting area. We talk about the next level up organizational, but now we're thinking, when am I adding value on a bigger level? So, just speaking for myself, I am really passionate about Lean. I love sharing this message. I love sharing it in a simple way. I love inspiring other people to transform their companies. So, when I'm doing a podcast like this, I feel I'm adding value. When I'm organizing the Lean Summit, I feel really good because I'm adding value.
(23:07):
When I'm working on the book, but my book's coming out next year, I'm adding value. When I am hosting a Lean Made Simple tour, I don't do them all, but sometimes I get to host them myself, I'm adding value. I just love connecting with people that are into Lean and they're really passionate about it. And I feel like I'm contributing and helping. So, it's about purposeful work, defining what is your purpose. What are you really good at, and what do you want to do? And go and do that. And when you're in that space, it's a really good feeling because you feel valuable. And that's value. For me, that's value.
Matt (23:44):
Really interesting. This may be moving a step backwards, but I just need to get it out of my system. You've also helped me. So, this is back to you, Mark. The value I bring to this organization and this product is hosting podcast interviews and high level editorial decisions. I'm terrible at the practical stuff. Like ask me to wire a camera, ask me to make a cable, look, it would take me 10 hours to do it, but Mark's brilliant at that. And so, it's planned to your own values as well is really important. And then what else I loved about what you said is it's actually aligning your values, what you care about deeply as a person, what gives you meaning, what dent do you want to make in the universe ,with the activity that you actually turn your hand to, that's powerful.
Ryan Tierney (24:31):
Yeah. Even thinking as a parent, as a mother, as a father, if your purpose in life is to do the best for your children, when you're sitting doing their homework, you're helping them with their homework, value. And you're taking them to the cinema or taking them to the park the weekend, value. When you're spending time with them, value. When you're challenging them on something or trying to steer them or educate them, value. This is all value. So, when you're doing purposeful work, to me that's value. And that's the highest form that you can work at and that's where we should all be heading.
Matt (25:09):
Can you give an example of non-value in parenting?
Ryan Tierney (25:13):
Non-value in parenting? So, if we think about value in manufacturing is when the product is changing. So, if we use that same concept in parenting, when is the children's ideas or their brains changing? When are you making them think? When are you challenging them? At what point are they developing or growing, or learning, or understanding something at a deeper level? So, anytime you're doing that, you're adding value. Anytime you're not doing that, is non-value added activity. So, ironing their uniforms, doing the washing, cleaning the house when they're away to bed, all the tasks that we do around the house are technically non-value. Yes, they're necessary, but if we can do it quicker and more efficiently, let's figure out a way. Let's do it. Because only value you're adding is when you're spending time with them, you're helping them, you're coaching them, you're changing... When the product is changing, when the child's brain or mind or thinking is changing, that's value. Everything else over here is non-value.
Matt (26:22):
I'm going to say something, this is quite controversial, so we may end up cutting it, but it just came into my head. There's a guy I love called Seth Godin, great thought leader. And he has this amazing thing. He's been super successful, written who knows how many New York Times bestselling books, et cetera, et cetera. And people always ask him, how do you get so much stuff done? And he says he made a decision not to watch any form of television, because he said, in this context of this conversation, it didn't add value to the work that he wanted to leave for the world. And he says that one decision frees up 100 hours a month for him to focus more on value. And so, that's not a judgment statement, but it just was an interesting thing that came in my head where I'm like, wow, can you imagine if all of us as people started to really look and chop away at the non-value activities in our life, how the world and society at large would change.
Ryan Tierney (27:20):
Exactly. I remember Paul Akers saying way back when I first came across him, he said, "I've done more in 10 lifetimes than most people do in one." And I get that now. I know what he meant. I know what he means, because he is just stripping out all this non-value. He doesn't work with people he doesn't want to work with. He doesn't work with customers that are not his defined customer. He's not working with a supplier that isn't aligned with what he is doing. He's stripping all the non-value and continues to out of his life to increase the value. And that's what we should all be doing, trying to get three or four or 10 lifetimes in this one lifetime.
Matt (27:57):
Yeah. And it's interesting, if you look on the global stage, there are countries that are better at this principle than others. And it's interesting to see how that'll even play out for us. And we have a responsibility. We talk a lot about Northern Ireland, how exciting would it be if we start to strip away a lot of the non-value in Northern Ireland?
Ryan Tierney (28:17):
Exactly.
Matt (28:18):
Fighting about religion, inefficiencies and big government processes, there's a lot of non-value that could release the human potential that this part of the world has.
Ryan Tierney (28:18):
There is, yeah.
Matt (28:30):
Awesome. So, for people who have listened and watched at this point and they're looking to get started, where is an easy jumping off point for them to start applying this principle to their lives?
Ryan Tierney (28:41):
I think people are going to have more questions maybe than answers after this podcast, because it took me a long time to get my head around it. Value, what's value and what's non-value? You look at every process and you're thinking, is this value or is this not? The best way is to physically see it? One of the things you can do is go onto the Lean Made Simple YouTube channel. We have a really good video there to describe Donna's process that you mentioned. So, that one video alone will help to steer your thinking on what's value and what's non-value. Look at videos, listen to this podcast a couple of times, and really try and internalize what we're saying here, because it's so powerful and it's so simple.
Matt (29:28):
If you don't mind, I also would make the offer that if anyone has any questions, we'll put a link. Where's my camera? Where's my value? We'll put a voice message link, that if you would like to submit a question. We've talked about doing a Q&A episode, and maybe if there is going to be a lot of questions, that would be a great way to collect some of those questions and we can answer them in a future episode in not too long a time.
Ryan Tierney (29:53):
Yeah. Amazing. Awesome.
Matt (29:54):
Ryan, thank you so much. This has been really, really insightful. Thank you so much for listening and watching. And like we always say, Ryan's already alluded to it, it's easy when you see this thing in real life. I describe Seating Matters as a living metaphor for Lean, where you can actually go and you can see a lot of these principles and concepts played out. We're not in the fabric business, we're in the podcast business, but it's seeing Donna do her thing in real life that allows me to view my business differently. So, if you haven't already or if you are in need of some more inspiration, if you've already been, we'd highly recommend heading to a tour with Seating Matters. You can check that out. There's a link in the description of this episode for you to book a tour with yourself, your team members, your family. I was talking to a guy recently and he's been following some of the con. He says, "My son's turning 18. I might just go and do a factory tour with him, because I think he would really benefit from it." I'm like, yeah, absolutely. Why not?
Ryan Tierney (30:49):
This is funny. Yesterday we had a tour. A couple from Germany came and it was the husband gave his wife a Lean Made Simple tour for her birthday, honestly.
Matt (31:00):
That's unbelievable.
Ryan Tierney (31:01):
They flew into Dublin on Monday evening, came for the tour on Tuesday and left again. That was her birthday present.
Matt (31:06):
Wow. I'm just thinking out loud, I mean you guys probably do, but it would be awesome if we can put together, if people are flying in a three day, five day Northern Ireland itinerary, if they wanted to make a trip of it as well, that would be really fun. But we'll talk more about that later. Awesome. Daniel, Mark, really appreciate you. Ryan, thank you for today. And thank you so much once again for listening, watching, and we look forward to sharing another one with you very, very soon. Cheers.
Ryan Tierney (31:30):
Thanks very much.