Leave It Better Than You Found It | Lean Principles | Ryan Tierney
Welcome to Lean Made Simple, a podcast about transforming your business — and life — one improvement at a time.
In this episode Ryan Tierney from Seating Matters discusses a powerful lean principle known as: Leave It Better Than You Found It!
Along the way he and Producer Matt talk about:
The three levels of “Leave It Better Than You Found It”
Creating a generous team culture that always thinks of the next person
Practical use cases for individual work areas and communal spaces in your business
Why his 12-year-old forklift looks brand new
Leaving a job better than you found it by becoming a process engineer
Implementing a “this is the worst it will ever be” mentality across your team
The radical changes this principle had made on Ryan’s business
And how you can apply this concept to your professional and personal life by the end of the episode
Check it out!
P.S. Book a Lean Made Simple Tour at: https://www.leanmadesimple.com/book-a-tour
Welcome to Lean Made Simple: a podcast for people who want to change their business and their lives one step at a time. I’m Ryan Tierney from Seating Matters, a manufacturing company from Limavady, Northern Ireland that employs 60+ people. Almost ten years ago, I came across this thing called “lean” and it transformed my life… now I want to share this message with as many people as possible.
This podcast unpacks our learnings, lessons and principles developed over the last decade in a fun, conversational way that will hopefully empower you on your own business journey — whether you’ve been doing lean for years or are just starting out!
Check it out on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts or any other podcast platform by searching “lean made simple.”
Magic Moment 1: Why Our 12-Year-Old Forklift Looks Brand New
Magic Moment 2: Leaving a job better than you found it
Magic Moment 3: Training Your Replacement
Magic Moment 4: Why There Are No Bins In Japan
Transcription of Full Episode
Ryan (00:00):
We're leaving it better, not as you found it, better than you found it. And that's really what Lean is built on. It's deep-rooted in respect, and that's the type of culture that we've built at our company.
(00:10):
Welcome to Lean Made Simple, a podcast for anyone who wants to transform their business or their life one step at a time. My name is Ryan Tierney from a company called Seating Matters in Limavady, Northern Ireland. Eight years ago, I came across this thing called Lean and totally transformed my life, and I'm really passionate about sharing that message with as many people as possible.
Matthew (00:32):
My name is Matthew Thompson. I'm a podcast producer from Belfast who has just started his own Lean journey after meeting Ryan. In today's episode, we are going to talk all about one of Ryan's favorite Lean principles, which is Leave it better than You find it. And how we're going to structure it is we're going to look at three different levels. Level one is starting off with the nitty-gritty, super practical things that you could do really, really fast to make a big difference, and to leave something better than you found it. Level two, we're going to look outwards a little bit, so with our community and society. And level three, we're going to go, if you have it in you, Ryan, we're going to go massive global, philosophical. How can this concept change the world?
(01:11):
Ryan, just to kick us off, let's start with level one and let's start with something really, really practical.
Ryan (01:16):
Yeah. The easiest way I can explain this concept is if you imagine you're having lunch at the staff canteen or the staff kitchen at your company, and as soon as you're finished, you want to leave that area better than you found it. If I was leaving it as I found that I would just clean up the area that I was using, but if I'm leaving it better than I found it, I clean the immediate area, plus I clean the area beside me, so it's better than you found it, not as you found it.
(01:44):
Another really good example is that in our company at Seating Matters, we have 55 or 60 people, and every single person takes their turn to do kitchen duty and to do bathroom duty every day, including myself, we all do it. And the goal is that every time we use the kitchen or use any of our facilities, we leave it better than we found it. So if I'm in the kitchen and I'm making a cup of tea and I spill a wee bit of milk, I'll clean the milk up. But I'll also say, oh, the sugar needs topped up, or the spoons aren't in the right place. So not only will I leave my immediate area better than I found it, I'll go beyond that and make something else better.
(02:27):
But just imagine every single person doing this, that's where everything gets better, everything gets easier. We don't have to talk about efficiency and productivity and process improvement. If we boil it down into this one simple concept of, leave everything better than we found it, productivity and efficiency comes as a byproduct.
Matthew (02:48):
And again, really interestingly, the word that jumps out to me is generosity, because you're thinking of the next person. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine if you go back to the factory now after this and you go to do bathroom duty, there's probably not actually a lot to do, because everyone on your team is trying to leave things better than you find them.
Ryan (03:08):
Well, actually it's funny you say that, because the goal is that you open the door to do canteen duty and there's nothing to do. That's the goal, because if everybody does leave it better than they found it, there should be no job to do at the end. There should be no process to clean the kitchen or clean the bathroom. That is the ultimate goal, yeah.
Matthew (03:27):
Am I right in saying that in your factory and in your company you guys don't pay for cleaners.
Ryan (03:33):
Exactly, yeah. No cleaners.
Matthew (03:34):
That's crazy, because your factory's pretty big.
Ryan (03:38):
Yeah.
Matthew (03:38):
If you were paying for a cleaning team, that would be substantial.
Ryan (03:41):
It would be. But more times and often, you'll see somebody walking across and they'll see a bit of paper on the floor, a bit of rubbish, they'll pick it up and put it in the bin. And you think that's a small thing, but it's not common in a lot of places to do that. You'll see components maybe lying on the floor that should be in a bin. You'll see somebody reach down, pick them up and put them exactly back where they should go, because we're leaving it better than we found it. Not as we found it, better. And the key is that we're better.
Matthew (04:06):
Brilliant. Okay, so that's fine. That makes sense. What we want to do throughout this episode is take things up to the next level. We've talked about, this is on a very basic level, something like a community kitchen. Let's start to get a little bit more focus now. If we move up to another level and start talking about, let's say each of your employees and their own workstation. Talk to me a little bit about that leave it better than you find it mentality for an individual employee and what they do every day.
Ryan (04:36):
I think a good example is our forklift. We have various forklifts in the company, but every one of them looks like brand new. They look like the day they came. Some of our forklifts are 12 years old, but they look absolutely brand new. And we do tours all the time and we tell people that forklift's 10, 12 years old, they don't believe us. They have to go over and check the serial number to find out for themselves.
(05:01):
But the forklift looks like that because everybody leaves it better than they found it. If I was driving the forklift, then I go to unload a pallet onto a truck or whatever. When I get off it, I look behind me, get a bit of spray, get a cloth, clean the seat, clean the pedals, clean the steering wheel, make sure everything is better than I found it. And if I notice an improvement, I'll notice oh, the pen's missing that we use for the delivery dockets. I'll go to get a new pen. The mast that moves up and down needs grease, they'll go and grease it. So we're leaving it better, not as you found it, better than you found it.
(05:33):
And this really creates a culture of respect throughout the whole organization. And that's really what Lean is built on. It's built in respect. If you go back to the Japanese, way back where this whole thing started, it's deep-rooted in respect, and that's the type of culture that we have built at our company.
Matthew (05:51):
And I've been on a couple of factory tours now up to Seating Matters and something that I always, I experienced this for the first time, and then also I've witnessed other people just have their minds blown where they're like, how can a factory be this tidy? And it freaks people out. They're like, this is really weird. Why does the forklift not have any dents in it? It's almost uncanny. And just when you're speaking there, I was thinking that because you guys have a high standard, it means everything has to be pulled up to that standard. Because there was this cynical side of me, it was like, well, what does it really matter if the forklift has a couple of dents in it, or if it's got the paint scratched on it? But actually if that's the standard that becomes acceptable in the company, then oh well, then it's okay for that bolt to be in the corner and now the bolt's in the corner. Well now it's okay for dust to be around the bolt, and it spirals downwards, whereas you guys have created an upward spiral.
Ryan (06:44):
Yeah. Well, a quote that I love is, how you do anything is how you do everything. If we can look after the forklift the way we do, if we can look after the canteen, if we can have a place for exactly where the tools go, that thinking goes into the processes. That means we're going to answer the phone on time, we're going to send the invoice in time, we're going to get back to the customer query on time, so this filters through the entire organization. We start with the physical almost to teach and train and prove the ethos, but that thinking transfers into everything.
Matthew (07:17):
Wow. Okay, great. So level one, very practical, very physical. You can see it with your eyes. It's very, very tangible. If we move up now into level two of leaving things better than you find it, what does that start to look like?
Ryan (07:35):
It's a good question. The best example I can think of is a real life example. A guy called Chris that used to work at Seating Matters, his job was improvement manager. It was a brand new job. We never had an improvement manager before. Chris came in and created this job. He set up systems, he set up processes. His work area was immaculate. He had his computer and all this stuff right where he needed it in order to carry out his work. But Chris, what Chris done was left this job better than he found it.
(08:07):
So not only do we leave the forklift better and the work area, but the next level up, is leaving your job better than you found it. And for anyone in a job, that's the way you should be thinking all the time. How can I, yes, I want to move on and progress and maybe move country or move to a different company or move to a different area of work, but try leaving your job better than you found it for the next person. And that's really what we should all be aspiring to do, leaving your job better than it was when you came into it, and thinking of the next person that comes in.
Matthew (08:38):
Wow. And again, it's that generous spirit. That's the thing that has really surprised me falling down the Lean rabbit hole, is I kind of initially thought it was all about optimization, getting your profit margins, higher efficiency, da-da-da-da, kind of like that brutal capitalistic side to it. But the more I get into it and the more I chat to guys like you, I'm like, hold on, there's actually a real heart, there's an emotional depth to this stuff as well, that actually has a generosity of spirit that I think is absent in a lot of other business philosophies and practices and stuff like that.
Ryan (09:10):
Yeah, exactly. It is very philosophical actually when you get into Lean. And once we can teach the philosophical side to it, that transfers outside of work, it transfers into your life. But we have to talk less and less about productivity and efficiency and getting your numbers, and reducing lead time and improving quality metrics. We find ourselves talking less and less about that and more and more about culture, and more and more of its simple concepts, because if we can get through to every single person in the organization to leave something better than they found it, all the rest of the stuff looks after itself.
Matthew (09:50):
Yeah, I love that idea of leaving a job better than you find it. That is definitely a step up in thinking. And I remember when I was doing the factory tour, something that really stood out to me, I have it written down in my notion, is that you encourage every single member of your team to not think about their job as the job title, as welder or designer or whatever their job title in their head should be process engineer. Talk to me a wee bit about that.
Ryan (10:20):
This was a massive learning for me. I learned this from a guy, Chuck Ciccarelli from in the Ditch Towing products about five, six years ago. And we'd done a tour of his facility in the US and he was saying that every single person is a process engineer. I didn't really know what he meant, but he said, people don't come here to work, they come here to improve the process of how we work. So in our office, Kerry our accountant isn't here to do the accounts. Kerry is 100% employed to improve the process of the accounts. We're setting up systems, we're setting up processes, and by doing that, we're leaving our job better than we found it. We're thinking of the next person and leaving everything better than we found it.
Matthew (11:07):
And the culture that that creates, is really powerful. And I was thinking about this the other day, I am the owner of my business, and I was even thinking like, Huh, what if I started treating the role of owner, leaving that position better than I found it? So even thinking about, if I ever sold my business someday, or if I took a step back, or I got hit by a bus and Mark starts running the show, how can I make sure that all of my processes, all of my things are outside of my head, outside of my brain, so that whoever fills my shoes, whether it's because I step away or I'm move into more of an advisory role or whatever, that actually whoever comes into that will do an even better job than I did?
Ryan (11:54):
And it takes us back to another thing that we talk about. A tree is either growing or dying. A tree doesn't stay the same. Your business is either growing or staying. That's just fact. And everybody's businesses, nothing stays the same. If your business is growing, you're creating more opportunities, you're going into a different marketplace, you're maybe designing a new product, you're providing a different service, more opportunities are opening all the time for people in your team. The best way to progress through an organization, is to systemize your current job. And what we talk about is train your replacement. You should always be training your replacement. Someone in our fabric cutting area, for example, in the factory, they're always thinking, right, who's going to come in and who can I train to do this job so that I can release myself to go and be the manager of this department?
(12:46):
It's a constant state of motion, because business is ever-changing. Business has hopefully grown, if your business has grown, there's new opportunities and you have to free yourself up, systemize your job to be able to release yourself to those higher positions. Leaving your job better than you found it and you should always be training your replacement is a massive, massive thing.
Matthew (13:09):
And again, another thing that I picked up on both of the factory tours that I've done actually, is this wee phrase, you've used it talking about machines and you've also used it talking about job positions. And I use it all the time now. I find myself saying it about the studio is looking around our podcast studio and saying, this is the worst it will ever be. Because you're constantly thinking. And so you mentioned Kerry in accounts, and I'm just picturing, it's like for Kerry, she's thinking this, the way I do my job, the processes involved in stuff, this is the worst it will ever be for me. But most importantly for anyone who ever does this job in the next a hundred years. That's mind-blowing.
Ryan (13:51):
It is. And we didn't come up with that. Lexus came up with that actually. So we'd done a tour of the Lexus plant in Japan, and one of the interrogates was saying, part of our philosophy is when we buy a new machine, they were showing us this big huge stamping press that stamps out these car parts. And as soon as the new machine was delivered, they were improving it, a brand new machine. So even a brand new piece of equipment can be improved. This thinking ties into leave it better than you found it, but this is the worst I'll ever be, is a huge concept as well.
Matthew (14:28):
Amazing. Mark, I'm going to come to you, give you a wee bit of prep. We've made a couple of improvements in the studio. Again, I blame you for everything, Ryan, in a good way. Talk to us about what we've done with the cameras and then some tiny modifications we've made in line with this mentality of this is the worst it'll ever be.
Mark (14:51):
Yeah. Last week we spent a lot of time mounting cameras on the walls, it was a big one. One thing actually, Ryan, you said earlier when we were talking about this is, you like to get things off of surfaces and get them lifted up, so you're freeing all the space around you. And I mean, you said yourself when you came in, just compared to last time we did this podcast, probably a lot of it isn't noticeable on camera, but it feels a lot more open. And a lot of that I think, has come down to taking things that were on tripods, you tripped over them, everything, the light stands, it was all stuff getting in the way and removing that friction just by simply mounting them on the wall. Really simple things. I think those mounts were like seven or eight pounds each, really simple improvements, but every day we were in here, we were tripping over them. Now they're completely out of the way.
Ryan (15:53):
The whole thing is about freeing your mind up for creativity, so you're not worrying about the tripod or the position of the angle of the camera or the lights on or what time are we on. All these menial tasks have been looked after to focus us on doing what we're doing.
Matthew (16:09):
Absolutely. And we've adapted your phrase slightly where we say, this is the worst our podcast production process will ever be. Because we have a checklist now that we run through for every single podcast, right from the prep to the publishing, and we're making small changes to that every single time. So actually, every time you step into the studio or anyone else steps into the studio, it's going to be better, and that's crazy because when Mark is a millionaire of his own company someday and someone else is producing, then they're going to reap the benefits of all Mark's work. It's just crazy.
(16:46):
That's level two, which already feels really expansive and really wide, but what I love about you is you take things to, for me, a totally different universe sometimes it feels like. If we move to a third and final level of leaving things better than you find it, I picture someone standing on top of a mountain now fully enlightened, expansive, their mind's totally blown and they're breathing and living this concept to it's fullest. What does that start to look like?
Ryan (17:18):
Ultimately where we want to get is leaving this planet in a better place than we found it. There's a lot of talk at the minute about climate change, about carbon footprint. Really we need to leave this planet better than we found it for the next generation coming behind us. And how can we do that? I heard a good line lately is dream big but act small, so we have a vision where everything has to go to go and a lot of people are very clear on where that has to be with SDGs and the sustainable development goals set out. But how do we actually day to day get there? We get there by small incremental improvements. That's really where this is all going to.
(18:07):
My passion is about creating a culture within our company, yes, but then more companies and eventually a country, eventually changing the thinking of a large group of people to leave things better than they found it. That there's so much potential, there's so much opportunity there within your control, to leave things better than you found it. But ultimately it's for the next generation. It's for those that are coming after us. And it's funny, last week we had a nursery, the nursery that our kids go to, we're up at Seating Matters for our Lean tour, and one of their biggest takeaways from the entire tour was the Leave it better than you founded concept. And we were talking about all this stuff and the owner of the nursery said, really, we need to get this thinking into the children. So they're doing morning meetings with their children.
Matthew (19:00):
Oh, my goodness.
Ryan (19:01):
Five-year-olds after school's club, our seven-year old goes to, they're doing morning meetings, teaching this level of respect to kids. And this is really what we need to start this, is we need to get this thinking into schools. We need to get this thinking into nurseries. We need children like the Japanese. The Japanese have mastered this. We need to get this sinking in at a lower level. And that's ultimately the way that we're going to leave this planet better than we found it.
(19:31):
Imagine a culture in UK and Ireland, even as local as that, even in Northern Ireland, imagine a culture where Northern Ireland is known as a young upcoming culture of being respectful, leaving things better than they found it, thinking of the next person, leaving the planet in a better place than it was when we had it. That's really where-
Matthew (19:56):
That's powerful.
Ryan (19:57):
That's where it's all going.
Matthew (19:58):
And while you were speaking there, I had this picture in my head of, Ryan's factory and business is based in Limavady, which is a small enough wee rural town, village, what is it?
Ryan (20:08):
Town, yeah.
Matthew (20:08):
Town, yeah. And you've got 50, 60 people working for Seating Matters. You've had a lot more people come through the company. So just in that localized space in Limavady, imagine the impact that culture has, rippling out into the town. And Limavady could be the Lean leader of Northern Ireland and it could ripple out into surrounding towns where you get more and more businesses practicing principles like this. You've affected culture in a really big way. And so I want to come slightly down, because this is amazing. This is really aspirational, but a really silly in some ways, but a quite profound example that you share with me. You sent me a video, you were traveling recently. You were at Gatwick Airport in London, and we'll take it from there. Tell me what was in that video.
Ryan (20:59):
Yeah, I was over at a training seminar and on the way home flying through Gatwick and I went to Starbucks, got a coffee, got a biscuit or whatever, and I was sitting down to drink the coffee. And I just noticed the whole work area, the table, the chair around the area where the bins were all kept in Starbucks was an absolute mess. It was a mess. And before I drunk my coffee, I was like, right, I need to clean this place up. So I cleared away all the rubbish, put it all in the bin, went behind the counter, asked the lady for a bottle of spray, got a bit of blue roll and I started, I cleaned the entire Starbucks, cleaned all the work bounces, pushed all the chairs in, and then I sat down to have my coffee. And the lady from Starbucks actually come over and thanked me. I didn't do it for that, but she come over and says, I really appreciate what you've done, but imagine if everybody had done that.
(21:55):
When we were in Japan a few months ago that that's the way the Japanese think-
Matthew (22:00):
Really interesting.
Ryan (22:01):
You would never see that level of disorganization or chaos or untidiness in Japan. You just wouldn't see it. So it all starts, as I said before, with tiny, tiny steps. If I can be the example of this and then the nursery in Limavady are doing it, then the school's doing it, and there's companies starting to do it, if more people can start to think like this, we can change the country, and we can change the world.
Matthew (22:26):
Absolutely. But you've just given a roundabout definition for leadership. That's what leadership is. It's leading from the front and driving change by example, if that makes sense.
Ryan (22:37):
Exactly, yeah.
Matthew (22:38):
It's it true, you shared this with me one time, I don't know if it's true or not, that in Japan there's no rubbish bins on the streets.
Ryan (22:44):
Exactly.
Matthew (22:46):
That's crazy.
Ryan (22:48):
Because it's not respectful for you to just throw your rubbish and think that somebody else is going to deal with it. Take ownership of your rubbish. You take it home and deal with it yourself.
Matthew (22:58):
Crazy.
Ryan (22:59):
Yeah, it's true.
Matthew (23:00):
Starting to land the plane then, and again, you still have a few minutes left if you haven't left something better than you found out while you've been listening or watching this, so get your brain in overdrive. Take your first step, because this stuff is infectious. You do one small thing and then it dominoes into something else. So we're really, really keen to push you to make that small little change whatever it is in your personal or your professional life.
(23:24):
But as we're wrapping up, Ryan and someone's been listening to this and they're like, this is amazing. This is exciting. Or they're very cynical. It's like, well, this is great in theory, how do we make this practical and tangible for business leaders and leaders of communities, and parents leading their own family units? What are some of the low barrier to entry, first steps that people can do to create this culture inside themselves, and in the people immediately around them?
Ryan (23:52):
Yeah, it's a great question and it's so simple. It's unbelievable. You could do this in the next hour. Wherever you're sitting listening to this podcast, you can act on this in the next half hour to an hour. The next person you come in contact with, give them a compliment. You're leaving that person better than you found them. So it's leave it better than you find it, not just your work area, not just the Starbucks table, not just the forklift, it's people. Leave the next person you come in contact with better than you found them. Give them a compliment. Say something complimentary. Leaving people better than you find them. Leave your equipment better than you find them, it works absolutely everywhere.
Matthew (24:32):
Yeah. Amazing. A couple of quick rattle off examples that came into my head. Your house, your home, imagine leaving your home better for the next person who buys it. Powerful. You were talking about leaving people better than you found them. So as you know, we're in the process of recruiting an apprentice, so someone who's really young just got out of school and my head's been spinning this weekend of just like, how can our business be a springboard for this young person? And that's exactly what it is. How do I leave this person professionally better than I find them, if that makes sense? Where they come through and they do the podcast stuff with us. But one of the young guys in particular has a dream of becoming a film director and all this sort of stuff, so it's like how can we put tools and knowledge into his hands that allows him to go out and do that?
Ryan (25:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Matthew (25:23):
Really exciting.
Ryan (25:24):
This is powerful.
Matthew (25:25):
Burning. Mark, any closing words or wisdom for us? Any reflections?
Mark (25:31):
You came to the wrong guy? No, I do think for someone listening to this blind, this can feel very aspirational, very high in the clouds, very this doesn't happen. This isn't the way people work. Legitimately, it's the way it works at Seating Matters. You hear the examples, it's the way it works. I haven't been to Japan, but from stories from Ryan and others like it, the culture there, this stuff does actually work. I suppose it becomes natural once you start to feel it coming back and not in a, help others so that they help you way, but more in a, it goes deeper to, we talk all the time about fulfillment at work, things like that. To actually have made a difference in a day of work, does that need to necessarily be tied to your productive output, or can that be okay, I streamlined a process a wee bit for the guy that sits in the desk next to me.
Matthew (26:46):
Yeah, it's making somebody really happy. We showed you the improvement we made with the light bulbs, where Roscoe would have to jump up on a chair and unscrew the light bulbs and they're hot, and he would've to do that every single episode. Now there's just a simple switch where you push the button and they all go off. The delight that that generates, and comes in just so excited. Or you do a really cool new stream deck button where you push a button and it automates part of the process. It's like a form of love almost. Do you know what I mean?
Ryan (27:20):
It is, it's all about creating flow really, isn't it? From you get up in the morning till you go to bed at night, your day should flow. There should be no stoppages, no blockages. When you want to turn the lights on, you just flick the switch and the light comes on. You shouldn't have to struggle, and where's the bulb? And you can't reach it and you need to get ladder. If we get rid of all these blockages and all these stoppages, life just flows.
Matthew (27:40):
Awesome. Well, Mark, thank you for producing today. Ryan, really appreciate all the insights that you shared. Thank you very much for listening or watching. We sincerely hope you enjoyed it. We hope that you were able to take that small little bit of action to leave something better than you find it. If you weren't able to get it done before the end of the episode, Ryan, at the start of the episode says, we need to extend people a little bit of grace. You have until you go to bed tonight, or you have an extra opportunity to even make a couple of other little changes to leave something better than you find it, whether it's in your personal or your professional life.
(28:17):
We really hope you enjoyed the Lean Made Simple podcast. Ryan and I are really excited to share these Lean principles and concepts with the rest of the world. We're going to be doing a couple of interviews as well, which will be really exciting with other Lean leaders and Lean thinkers around the planet.
(28:29):
And the last thing I'll say is that, if you want to really take your Lean journey to the next level, I'd highly encourage you to book a Lean Made Simple tour in Limavady, where you can come and see all of this stuff in real life happening before your very eyes. And I know for me, I'd read a couple of books about Lean, I'd listened to a couple of stuff, I watched a couple of videos and there was something about being there, Ryan, you watch the light bulbs turn on people's head all the time. It's that practically seeing it in front of you.
(28:57):
And we run a fully digital business, and Mark and I went up and it's just seeing it in real life something rewires in your brain where you're like, "Now, I get it." So leanmadesimple.com. There'll be a link in wherever you're listening or watching to this if you'd like to book a tour for you and your team. And other than that, thank you very much. Really appreciate it.
Ryan (29:16):
Thank you.